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Diferencial Torsen del S2000


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8 respuestas en este tema

#1
Storm

Storm

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Muy buenas,

Abro este hilo para tratar de conseguir info sobre el diferencial de serie del S2000. Cosa que no he conseguido hasta ahora.

Me gustaría saber:

-El tipo de Torsen (entiendo que 1).

https://en.wikipedia...ki/Torsen#Types

 

-The original Torsen T-1 (Type A) uses crossed axis helical gears to increase internal friction. The Type I can be designed for higher torque bias ratios than the Type II, but typically has higher backlash and the potential for Noise, Vibration, and Harshness (NVH) issues, and requires a precise setup/installation.
-The later Torsen T-2 (Type B ) uses a parallel gear arrangement to achieve a similar effect. There is also a specialist application of the T-2, known as the T-2R (RaceMaster).
-The latest Torsen T-3 (Type C) is a planetary type differential, in that the nominal torque split is not 50:50. The Type C is available as single or twin version; the Torsen twin C differential has front and center differential in the same unit.

 

Edit: NO, es un Torsen T-2 (Type B ).

 

-El lock ratio (TBR) (para saber el factor de multiplicación entre ruedas):

https://www.s2ki.com...8/#post14178990

 

"Torque bias ratio (TBR) represents the "locking effect" of the differential. More specifically, it indicates how much more torque is sent to the high traction wheel (or axle) then is sent to the spinning wheel. For example, when a differential has a TBR of 3:1, 3 times the torque the spinning wheel can maintain (75% of the total torque) will go to the higher traction wheel... When shipped the torque bias ratio (TBR) is approximately 3.2:1. After break-in, it stabilizes at about 2.6:1."
"Using less viscous oil will also raise TBR. A more viscous fluid will lower it. If you are changing the oil, be sure that you still use a GL-5 specification lubricant."
Further: "A GL-4 or GL-5 gear oil is required by Torsen Type 1 units. This oil provides high-pressure additives needed to prevent the oil from breaking down under the extreme conditions generated by the tooth mesh. A 75W-90 is recommended, but higher or lower viscosities can be used if they meet GL-4 or GL-5 specification. Either synthetic or conventional oils can be used as well. "

 

https://torsen.com/faq/

 

What is the TBR for my application?
In general, the TBR level of Type-2 products is between 2:1 and 2.5:1, whereas T-2R models are in the 3:1 to 4:1 range. This varies depending on the specific model. The TBR level of Type-1 differentials can be anywhere from 2.8:1 to 4:1, depending on the design requirements.

 

-Vías (1, 1.5 o 2):

https://www.s2ki.com...62&postcount=19

 

Some manufacturers make LSD's in different configurations and are commonly classified as 1 way, 1.5 way and 2 way. This designation reflects the design of the cam groove which enables the LSD to function differently under different loads. A 1 way differential means that the cam is shaped in such way as to have positive lock only when accelerating. The 2 way is constructed in a way to have positive lock motion in both acceleration and deceleration mode (Figure 3). The 1.5 way functions almost same as a 2 way but provides less lock when decelerating. The 1.5 way can provide more forgiving balance when braking than a full 2 way setup, although it is less effective for true racing applications, it provides easier operation for beginners in throttle off conditions. 1.5 way is also very effective for front wheel drive cars which need extra stability during braking.

 

Simple curiosidad.

Muchas gracias.


Editado por Storm, 08 febrero 2018 - 22:03:25.


#2
Storm

Storm

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Me gustaría saber:

...

 

El aftermarket de Quaife (QDF14U - Honda S2000 Quaife ATB Helical LSD differential) tampoco aclara mucho:

https://shop.quaife....sd-differential

 

Quaife ATB Helical LSD differential for the Honda S2000. A direct replacement for the standard open differential, the Quaife ATB Helical LSD differential transforms your car’s performance. Unlike a conventional plate-style limited slip differential, the Quaife ATB Helical LSD differential relies on gears rather than clutch plates for its operation. That means it is much smoother in operation. The Quaife ATB Helical LSD differential never locks harshly with a set pre-load of wheel slip across the driven axle, like a conventional LSD. Rather, the Quaife ATB differential automatically biases the torque away from the spinning wheel across the axle, to a constantly varying degree, and never locks. The Quaife ATB Helical LSD differential has many benefits over a standard open differential, including maximising traction and minimizing wheel spin, eliminating torque steer and snatching in front wheel drive cars compared to conventional LSD units, and a maintenance-free design which retains the standard oil lubrication. The Quaife ATB Helical LSD differential is proven in circuit and drag racing, rallying and road use, and is produced from Corus steel billets, and is CAD designed and CNC machined, then inspected to ISO 9001 standards. With over 250 applications - the Quaife ATB Helical LSD differential is the best option to utilise your cars performance. Quaife ATB Helical LSD differentials are used by Ford, General Motors and Daimler-Chrysler as original equipment. The Quaife ATB Helical LSD differential is also now subject to a lifetime warranty (subject to terms and conditions). This product is available direct from QUAIFE, please confirm your application using the attached technical drawing.

 

qdf14u.jpg

 

atbdiff_19.jpg

 

https://shop.quaife....iles/QDF14U.pdf


Editado por Storm, 08 febrero 2018 - 17:16:21.


#3
Raytrance

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#4
Storm

Storm

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-El tipo de Torsen (entiendo que 1).

https://en.wikipedia...ki/Torsen#Types

 

Noop. Aquí dicen que es un Torsen T-2 (Type B ):

https://www.s2ki.com...6587/#post65557

 

Edit: Efectivamente, acabo de leer las descripciones con más pausa y NO es el 1:

https://www.s2ki.com...3/#post24061739

 

OEM%20Desmontado%201.JPG

 

OEM%20Desmontado%202.JPG

 

Diagrama%20OEM%201.JPG

 

Diagrama%20OEM%202.JPG

 

Video de rodaje

 

:uff:


Editado por Storm, 08 febrero 2018 - 22:00:21.


#5
Storm

Storm

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Muy buenas,

Abro este hilo para tratar de conseguir info sobre el diferencial de serie del S2000. Cosa que no he conseguido hasta ahora.

Me gustaría saber:

-El tipo de Torsen (entiendo que 1).

https://en.wikipedia...ki/Torsen#Types

Edit: NO, es un Torsen T-2 (Type B ).

-El lock ratio (TBR) (para saber el factor de multiplicación entre ruedas):

https://www.s2ki.com...8/#post14178990

https://torsen.com/faq/

-Vías (1, 1.5 o 2):

https://www.s2ki.com...62&postcount=19

Simple curiosidad.

Muchas gracias.

 

Acabo de estar leyendo este antiguo hilo:

http://clubhondaspir...-contra-torsen/

 

El de Kaaz (DBH2010) es de discos:

http://www.kaazusa.c...hondaacura.html

 

8601_KAAZ_DBH2010_FS02-01@2x144684464456

 

MODEL     ENGINE         GRADE    YEAR     M/T     POSITION     NORMAL     L.S.D. TYPE     PLATES     PLATE SIZE    1.5WAY CAM     REMARKS
S2000                   
AP1     F20C VTEC           99.07~     MT     REAR     Torque Sensing     BASIC         12     M         DBH2010           
AP2     F22C VTEC           2003~     MT     REAR     Torque Sensing     BASIC         12     M         DBH2010     

 

Más info:

https://tomson.com.p...00-AP1-AP2.html

 

Producer:    Kaaz
Differential type:    Plate type 1.5 way
Ramp angle:    45/20 (1.5 way)
Preload:    6.5-7.0 kgm
Plates:    12

 

http://realstreetper...2C-DBH2010.html

 

KAAZ produces two configuration types commonly classified as 1.5 way or a 2 way. This designation reflects the design of the cam groove which enables the LSD to function differently under acceleration/deceleration loads. The 2 way is constructed in a way to have positive lock motion in both acceleration and deceleration mode, the 1.5 way functions similar to a 2 way under acceleration however provides less lock-up when decelerating. The 1.5 way may provide more forgiving balance depending on vehicle setup and driver skill when braking is compared to a 2 way setup. For Front Wheel Drive vehicles the 1.5 way is also very effective providing extra stability during braking.
Typically the 1.5 way differential is suitable for all types of motorsports driving. With optimized performance during acceleration it carries a lighter lockup on deceleration which is best suited for traditional road racers. Despite the fact that 1.5 way units have slighter lock up on deceleration, many users may still use this cam type for aggressive motorsports such like drifting or low gear auto crossing & gymkhana.
Kaaz Limited Slip Differential (LSD) is the choice differential for drifting, road racing, autocross/gymkhana, drag racing, spirited driving, and any other forms of motorsport. Kaaz LSDs react fast without fail to provide much needed traction to the wheels when cornering and accelerating. Kaaz Differentials are designed w/ the largest and most number of friction plates to increase drivetrain response and reliability under harsh driving conditions.
With Kaaz Limited Slip Differentials, you get the following advantages:
-Kaaz LSD will work when the slightest torque is applied inceasing drivetrain feedback.
-Better transfer of power from the engine to the drivedrain with minimal loss of power.
-Plate Abrasions are reduced by spreading power to more surface area on the bigger plates.
-Increased number of friction plates to greatly improve abrasion efficiency and heat capacities.
-All parts on the LSD have been made larger, so the overall strength of the main body is increased.

 

https://www.mdspares...oad/1/Kaaz-info

https://www.mdspares...tions-Part-List

 

Ok, entiendo que el Torsen de serie es de 1 vía.


Editado por Storm, 09 febrero 2018 - 21:40:21.


#6
Storm

Storm

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Abro este hilo para tratar de conseguir info sobre el diferencial de serie del S2000. Cosa que no he conseguido hasta ahora.

 



#7
Storm

Storm

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Abro este hilo para tratar de conseguir info sobre el diferencial de serie del S2000. Cosa que no he conseguido hasta ahora.

 

Menudo éxito. :uff:

 

El sábado subimos a Beizama por una carretera super estrecha con una paellera y curvas ciegas muy cerradas donde me lo pasé de lo lindo moviendo el culete a base de acelerador y dirección. :chino:

 

Lo que me sigue intrigando es... :P

 

...por qué este diferencial tiene fama de débil y la gente monta uno más agresivo (además de fuerte, entiendo). NPI. :meparto:



#8
Storm

Storm

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El aftermarket de Quaife (QDF14U - Honda S2000 Quaife ATB Helical LSD differential) tampoco aclara mucho:

https://shop.quaife....sd-differential

 

 

La virgen! :P

 

 

Qué de juguetes! :meparto:



#9
Storm

Storm

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La virgen! :P

 

Qué de juguetes! :meparto:

 

Más:

https://www.s2ki.com...elical-1171700/

 

Strength: Yes, they are made from a stronger steel over the oem differential, with the MFactory made from Forged SAE 4320/9310, and the Quaife from Milled SAE 8620. Unless you are putting serious power though, it's not really a point of failure

Power Delivery: Both oem and Quaife transfer approx. 66% of power to the wheel with traction. The MFactory uses a higher bias ratio, allowing transfer of approx. 75% of power to the wheel with traction

 

https://www.mfactory...1-ap2-f20c-f22c

 

helical-lsd_5ba18d01-fc2f-4360-80d4-315a

 

MFactory Helical LSD Differential Honda S2000 AP1 AP2 F20C F22C
MFactorySKU: MF-TRS-05F20
Price: Sale Price £616.22

Description

Gain a prominent advantage over the competition with the MFactory Helical Limited Slip Differential. Through the smooth and constant distribution of power to the wheels, the MFactory Helical LSD puts the power-to-the-ground and maximises your vehicle's traction. A must for any race car, be it Street, Strip or Track!

Diamond Cut to exacting tolerances from Forged High-Nickel-Chromium-Molybdenum Steel
Perfect fitment & finish ensures hassle-free installation & maintenance, each and every time

Designed using leading-edge Solidworks 3D CAD & Cosmos FEA software
Advanced Gear Geometry minimizes parasitic drivetrain losses. Race transmissions built with MFactory components transfer, on average, 1-2% more power to the ground over our competitors!

Multiple Stages Available (Honda & Mazda)
Users can choose (and upgrade) between the various Stages available, which determine the Bias Ratios. With the MFactory Helical LSD, upto 75% torque can be transferred to the one wheel! A must-have for serious road-racers

2nd Generation Design
The MFactory v2 Helical LSD is lighter, stronger and more efficient than any other Torque-Biasing Differential on the market today!

Covered by the MFactory Lifetime, Globally Transferable Warranty
Whether used on the Street, Strip or Track, all MFactory Helical LSD's come with a Lifetime, No-Hassle, Globally Transferable Warranty

No-Load/One-Wheel Syndrome
A common misconception is that a Torsen-Style Differential is useless under a no-load situation (e.g One wheel in the air). Although true to an extent, this no-load situation does not apply to the modern day car with Traction Control (or eDiff). For those without traction control, there is a very commonly used solution to the problem (used by professional race car drivers over the past 30+ years) that our competitors will not tell you; simply left-foot brake

Specifications
-Made from imported Japanese SAE 4320 & SAE 9310 Steel
-Forged, Double Tempered and Super Sub-Zero treated for unsurpassed toughness
-Advanced Shot Peening technology increases surface hardness
-Designed to withstand the extreme shock loads of competition-level Drag Racing
-Advanced gear geometry designed using industry-leading software puts more power to the ground
-Only the highest quality Brighton-Best Hardware is used
-Maintenance-free Gears eliminates the need for special fluids & rebuilds associated with plate-type LSDs
-Lock-free operation ensures no adverse affect to steering response
-Optional Race Pack Upgrades for more aggressive cornering (Honda & Mazda Fitments Only)

 

https://www.mfactory...1-ap2-f20c-f22c

 

mf-trs-10f20b-1-bearings_1.jpg

 

MFactory Metal Plate LSD Differential Honda S2000 AP1 AP2 F20C F22C
MFactory SKU: MF-TRS-10F20B

Select Diff Option
1.5/2.0 Way: £792.17
1.0/1.5 Way: £792.17
1.0 Way: £792.17

Description

Through the smooth and constant distribution of power to the wheels, the MFactory Metal Plate LSD puts the power-to-the-ground and maximises your vehicle's traction where conventional Torsen LSD's succumb to their limits. The Metal Plate LSD is by far the best performing Limited Slip Differential available for a dedicated Circuit, Rally or Drift car

Diamond Cut to exacting tolerances from Forged High-Nickel-Chromium-Molybdenum Steel
Perfect fitment & finish ensures hassle-free installation & maintenance, each and every time

Designed using leading-edge Solidworks 3D CAD & Cosmos FEA software
Advanced Gear Geometry minimizes parasitic drivetrain losses. Race transmissions built with MFactory components transfer, on average, 1-2% more power to the ground over our competitors!

Stress Tested on loaded dynos
Ensures our differentials are strong enough to handle the shock loads encountered during racing, yet also durable enough to handle the variable loads encountered during day-to-day driving

Fully Adjustable at-the-track
Users can fully adjust the LSD settings, be it initial pre-load, engagement angles or lock percentage at-the-track without any special tools necessary (disassembly of transmission required)

Coil Spring Pre-Load System (Application Dependant)
Through the integration of a coil spring pre-load system, gone are the days of on/off jerkiness, ensuring smooth power transition and maximum throttle response

2nd Generation Design (Application Dependant)
Through the accumulation of over 8 years of ongoing research and statistical analysis, we are proud to introduce our new v2 Metal Plate LSD applications for BMW (20-Plate) and Honda (16-Plate). A commonly known issue with Plate type LSD's is the associated NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) during low speed manoeuvres, especially noticeable on a daily driver. With the new MFactory v2 Metal Plate LSD, which uses our new 2nd Generation Active Friction™ Type-SS Plates (originally developed for our competition Touring Cars), NVH is reduced by as much as 50%

Low-Cost Maintenance Parts
Unlike with our Helical LSD, the Metal Plate LSD will require regular maintenance to keep performance at its peak. Replacement pre-load springs & plates are always in stock and offered at an affordable price

Covered by the MFactory Lifetime, Globally Transferable Warranty
Whether used on the Street, Strip or Track, all MFactory Metal Plate LSD's come with a Lifetime, No-Hassle, Globally Transferable Warranty

Specifications
-Made from imported Japanese SAE 4320 Steel
-Forged, Double Tempered and Super Sub-Zero treated for unsurpassed toughness
-Advanced Shot Peening technology increases surface hardness
-Only the highest quality Brighton-Best Hardware is used
-Coil Spring preload system ensures minimal powerloss and maximum response, allowing preload settings from 0-85lbs
-Lower initial preload ensures maximum durability and chatter-free operation
-Fully rebuildable with a choice of different cam angles
-New v2 Metal Plate LSD available, utilizing our 2nd Generation Active Friction™ Type-SS Plates, reducing NVH by as much as 50%
-Fully adjustable lock capacity; 20-Plate: 20%/40%/60%/80%/100% / 16-Plate: 25%/50%/75%/100% / 12-Plate: 33%/66%/100%
-New "Ramp Chip" Design for BMW v2 Metal Plate LSD fitments, allowing fully self-adjustable ramp angle customisation





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