17 respuestas en este tema

[Touge Master]

Ya sabéis que es rara la vez que pido información sobre algo del S pero es que he buscado por todas partes y no he podido encontrar nada, incluido el foro internacional y el manual de taller.

Necesito saber los siguientes datos de los árboles de levas de serie de un MY01:

- Momento de apertura de las válvulas de admisión (en grados APMS -Antes del Punto Muerto Superior-, BTDC para Deibito), tanto de las levas no-VTEC como de la VTEC.
- Momento de cierre de las válvulas de admisión (en grados DPMI -Despues del Punto Muerto Inferior-, ABDC) también para ambas levas.
- Momento de apertura de las válvulas de escape (en grados APMI - Antes del Punto Muerto Inferior-, BBDC) para ambas levas.
- Momento de cierre de las válvulas de escape (en grados DPMS -Despues del Punto Muerto Superior-, ATDC) también para ambas levas.

La duración no hace falta porque la estimaré de esos datos y la alzada está en el manual.

Del sistema de encendido necesito saber cuantos dientes tienen los discos de los sensores de posición del cigueñal y del árbol de levas. Que diente se considera significativo y en que evento (comienzo o final del diente). Y si puede ser como se sincronizan. Es decir, cuantos dientes pasan de cada sensor y que posición representa el punto muerto superior, el punto muerto inferior y en el del árbol de levas el momento de apertura de las válvulas de admisión (Vtec y no-Vtec)

No pido mucho pero cuando lo hago, con dos cojones

Un saludo.

Editado por Touge Master, 15 December 2008 - 18:26:35.

[JavoS2000]

Espera que mire en el bolsillo que creo que lo llevaba apuntado




Joer Jose no sueles preguntar pero cuando lo haces te kedas agusto..... ajjajaj

Suerte

PD mirare haber si encuentro algo

[deibit]

Que leches te has pillado?

Esto huele a AEM

[_SeR_]

Yo lo que siento es lo que andarás tramando...

[Lluiset2]

He estado buscando un rato y sobre la serie B de honda hay toda la informacion que quieras, pero del F20c la verdad es que no hay mucha. Mirando en una pagina he encontrado dos stage de camshafts y en la parte de abajo salia los parametros del F20c stock 00-03 y eran los siguientes:

ADV Duration: 300º/298º
DUR@.050" : 226º/222º

y bueno el alzado has dicho que no te hacia falta pero también estaba:

LIFT(mm): 12.10/11.14

no se si te servira de ayuda pero bueno se ha intentado

P.D: Estaria bien que alguien explicase con claridad los datos, ya que pienso que da dos valores en cada apartado debido a que en el primero si esta el vtec (por eso hay mas alzado) y en el segundo no esta el vtec (por eso hay menos alzado), pero prefiero que alguien lo verifique o desmienta.

saludos!

Editado por Lluiset2, 10 December 2008 - 20:49:25.

[JavoS2000]

Lluiset el alzado no variara, porke siempre es el mismo , pero si el tiempo de apertura ( de ahi lo de Vtec= (Variable Valve Timing and Electronic Lift Control)

[Touge Master]

He estado buscando un rato y sobre la serie B de honda hay toda la informacion que quieras, pero del F20c la verdad es que no hay mucha. Mirando en una pagina he encontrado dos stage de camshafts y en la parte de abajo salia los parametros del F20c stock 00-03 y eran los siguientes:

ADV Duration: 300º/298º
DUR@.050" : 226º/222º

y bueno el alzado has dicho que no te hacia falta pero también estaba:

LIFT(mm): 12.10/11.14

no se si te servira de ayuda pero bueno se ha intentado

P.D: Estaria bien que alguien explicase con claridad los datos, ya que pienso que da dos valores en cada apartado debido a que en el primero si esta el vtec (por eso hay mas alzado) y en el segundo no esta el vtec (por eso hay menos alzado), pero prefiero que alguien lo verifique o desmienta.

saludos!

Gracias Lluiset.

Pero efectivamente esos datos ya los tenía.

Alguien más podría confirmarlo pero los valores que has dado difieren en que uno es duración total por así decirlo y el otro es duración contando desde que el alzado de la válvula es .050"

Lluiset el alzado no variara, porke siempre es el mismo , pero si el tiempo de apertura ( de ahi lo de Vtec= (Variable Valve Timing and Electronic Lift Control)

Javo, creo que el alzado (de ahi lo de Lift) también varía.
De hecho los valores de altura de la leva son los siguientes:

- Admisión:

- Primario: 33.677mm
- Secundario: 33.961mm
- Medio (Vtec): 36.533mm

- Escape:


- Primario: 33.716mm
- Secundario: 33.994mm
- Medio (Vtec): 35.928mm

Como véis incluso entre las levas no VTEC hay diferencia en alzado.


Volviendo al tema, es bastante importante para mi saber esa información. Si alguien tiene algún contacto en Honda que pudiera conseguirla le estaría muy agradecido.
Deibit, recuerdo que ya has contactado con Honda en alguna ocasión para saber si los tarados de muelles del MY08 Europeo y los del Type-S eran los mismos. Si no es molestia tirar de ese contacto para intentar averiguar esto...

Editado por Touge Master, 10 December 2008 - 22:43:55.

[deibit]

Volviendo al tema, es bastante importante para mi saber esa información. Si alguien tiene algún contacto en Honda que pudiera conseguirla le estaría muy agradecido.
Deibit, recuerdo que ya has contactado con Honda en alguna ocasión para saber si los tarados de muelles del MY08 Europeo y los del Type-S eran los mismos. Si no es molestia tirar de ese contacto para intentar averiguar esto...

Si contacte con Honda Europa (que esta a 100m de mi piso) para pedirles info, pero el nivel de contacto que tuve es muy basico.. solo contesto la gente de marketing.. (que obviamente no tiene ni idea de nada de eso).

Eso mas que preguntar en Honda Europa habria que preguntar en Honda Japon (pero eso ya es mas jodido)

Bueno pero lo intento.. que por probar que no quede

[Touge Master]

Si contacte con Honda Europa (que esta a 100m de mi piso) para pedirles info, pero el nivel de contacto que tuve es muy basico.. solo contesto la gente de marketing.. (que obviamente no tiene ni idea de nada de eso).

Eso mas que preguntar en Honda Europa habria que preguntar en Honda Japon (pero eso ya es mas jodido)

Bueno pero lo intento.. que por probar que no quede

Gracias Deibit

¿De lo de los sensores de posición del cigueñal y del árbol de levas sabes algo?

[deibit]

¿De lo de los sensores de posición del cigueñal y del árbol de levas sabes algo?

No mas de lo que puedas encontrar en s2ki

ademas como dices esa info no sale en los manuales de servicio

@edit:

te sirve de algo esto?

http://www.s2ki.com/...p;#entry6720867
http://www.s2ki.com/...p;#entry9048427

Editado por deibit, 10 December 2008 - 23:22:34.

[deibit]

Mas info esparcida que encuentro:

http://bbrooks.doitb.....d revised.doc

No es especifico.. pero hay un capitulo que pone:

The parameter "S Sync Tooth" will display this count and it resets every time a cam tooth signal is received. The number in which the crank tooth signal is to use for its reference. For example, the S2000 has 24 evenly crank teeth per engine cycle and 3 non-evenly spaced cam teeth per engine cycle. The 3 cam teeth are separated by angles of 90, 90, and 180 degrees - kind of like an evenly spaced 4 tooth wheel with one missing tooth.

bla bla bla...

bueno no se si te servira de algo..

[j0kiN]

Tito Jose has probado a pasarte por el hilo "que quereis saber de Honda" y preguntar? el Sr.montesah parce tener mano en honda y puede conseguirte practicamente cualquier informacion.Ponte en contacto con el,seguro te ayudara.

Animo !

[Touge Master]

Tito Jose has probado a pasarte por el hilo "que quereis saber de Honda" y preguntar? el Sr.montesah parce tener mano en honda y puede conseguirte practicamente cualquier informacion.Ponte en contacto con el,seguro te ayudara.

Animo !

Gracias Joko!
Ya he posteado por allí.

Un abrazo crack, y gracias por los ánimos.

PD: ¿No recibiste el viernes pasado una foto? Tenemos que hablar de lo de las ruedas.

Has pillado la Emanage Jose?

No tio, la info es para otro tema.

Un saludo.

Editado por Touge Master, 12 December 2008 - 10:10:25.

[j0kiN]

Gracias Joko!
Ya he posteado por allí.

Un abrazo crack, y gracias por los ánimos.

PD: ¿No recibiste el viernes pasado una foto? Tenemos que hablar de lo de las ruedas.



No tio, la info es para otro tema.

Un saludo.

Jose no me llego nada el viernes almenos que yo me enterase,e tenido problemas ultimamente con el foro.

Cuidate !

[Storm]

Necesito saber los siguientes datos de los árboles de levas de serie de un MY01:

- Momento de apertura de las válvulas de admisión (en grados APMS -Antes del Punto Muerto Superior-, BTDC para Deibito), tanto de las levas no-VTEC como de la VTEC.
- Momento de cierre de las válvulas de admisión (en grados DPMI -Despues del Punto Muerto Inferior-, ABDC) también para ambas levas.
- Momento de apertura de las válvulas de escape (en grados APMI - Antes del Punto Muerto Inferior-, BBDC) para ambas levas.
- Momento de cierre de las válvulas de escape (en grados DPMS -Despues del Punto Muerto Superior-, ATDC) también para ambas levas.

La duración no hace falta porque la estimaré de esos datos y la alzada está en el manual.

Del sistema de encendido necesito saber cuantos dientes tienen los discos de los sensores de posición del cigueñal y del árbol de levas. Que diente se considera significativo y en que evento (comienzo o final del diente). Y si puede ser como se sincronizan. Es decir, cuantos dientes pasan de cada sensor y que posición representa el punto muerto superior, el punto muerto inferior y en el del árbol de levas el momento de apertura de las válvulas de admisión (Vtec y no-Vtec)

No pido mucho pero cuando lo hago, con dos cojones

 

Comparativa en dyno de árboles de serie vs Ballade Sports:

 

 

E info sobre los últimos:

https://balladesport...2f490c6fe&_ss=r

 

BS-S2K-CAM
Ballade Sports 00-09 S2000 DROP IN Camshafts
Ballade Sports
$649.99



Description:
Ballade Sports Honda 00-09 S2000  (DROP IN) Camshafts deliver low end/rpm horsepower and torque all the way through the power band topping at 9000 rpm. For years S2000 F20c and F22c engines have lacked initial throttle response and torque. Below VTEC the car is relatively lifeless. Ballade Sports camshaft profiles give a natural sensation of quicker horsepower response, low to mid range horsepower and torque, carrying all the way through VTEC and high rpm. This is the perfect for road race track use and daily driving. This is a great upgrade for stock engines or with bolt on modifications. 100% developed for the OEM F20c/F22c.

Features:

-Dyno tuning is recommended for maximum horsepower results, but will drive normally and deliver power on the Stock ECU.
-Stock idle and valve clearance.
-Stock Valve Springs and Retainer Compatible. No upgraded valve train required, but recommended.
-No piston to valve or valve to valve contact. Excludes dramatically milled/resurfaced heads more than 20 thousandths taken off.
-Increased lift, duration and Fast ramp speed, no laziness in rpm pick up.
-Engines with bolt on mods will feel enhanced feel over the current engine mods.
-100% daily drive-able and road race safe.
-Zero adverse effects to stock idle or OEM reliability performance
-Dyno Tested with a 7 hp gain and 6 ft lbs of tq.

Cam Specs:

-Dur @ 0.050: 230/227
-Lift in: 0.507/0.463
-Lift mm: 12.87/11.75
-Valve Clearance: 0.008 in/0.010 ex







***Results will vary depending on application.

 

Editado por Storm, 14 July 2021 - 16:19:48.

[Storm]

Comparativa en dyno de árboles de serie vs Ballade Sports:

...

 

Merece la pena montar el de admisión de un Ap1 en el Ap2 con idea de ganar potencia?

 

 

Parece que no.

Editado por Storm, 04 November 2021 - 16:18:48.

[Storm]

Urge Designs Jerk Camshafts:

https://urgedesigns....jerk-camshafts/

 

JERK CAMSHAFTS:
The dark art of cam design
The development of Jerk Bumpstix has been an extensive journey spanning over six years. Throughout this period, we’ve collaborated with numerous camshaft designers and manufacturers to fulfill our criteria for the right profile design, material quality, and precision manufacturing. Our initial partnerships were untenable as they fell short of our stringent standards in one or several aspects, leading us to continue our search. We have meticulously measured, dyno-tested, and quality-inspected a multitude of camshafts, confronting various issues such as porous metal castings, high-stress lobe profiles, and inaccuracies in timing.

We had the option to proceed to production with any of these manufacturers or designs. However, doing so could have resulted in subpar performance, increased wear profiles, or the risk of manufacturing defects—issues that are unfortunately not uncommon in the industry. But in line with our commitment to excellence, as demonstrated with our header design, we chose to discontinue our investment with any designer or manufacturer whose product failed to meet the URGE benchmark.

At last, we have achieved camshaft profiles that optimize performance and minimize valvetrain wear. These are produced on quality-controlled CNC machinery, employing the finest materials available and backed by industry-leading test results.

Intake cam
Valve timing is a pivotal aspect of camshaft function, dictating the RPM range and the specific band where an engine produces torque. The most critical event in camshaft timing is the closing of the intake valve, which is influenced by fluid inertia and compressibility. These factors determine the optimal point of intake valve closure to maximize cylinder filling at a targeted RPM range. We dedicated considerable effort to perfecting this timing, utilizing adjustable cam gears for precise adjustments.

Following the intake valve closing event, the next key parameter is the intake cam duration. This duration must be finely tuned based on manifold pressure and the engine’s primary operational range. The combination of intake duration and valve lift is crucial as it defines the engine’s air intake capacity at any given RPM, which in turn dictates the potential torque output.

Exhaust cam
Exhaust valve duration and the lobe separation angle are critical camshaft timing events that establish camshaft overlap, which in turn influences fluid momentum and the bleed-off of pressure. While the closing and duration of the intake valve are primary determinants of a camshaft’s power-generating capability, the exhaust timing events refine the torque curve’s range and peak.

In our research, we analyzed hundreds of torque curves and flow charts to determine the optimal size for the exhaust cam that would complement our intake cam, with the aim of maximizing torque gains across the broadest RPM range feasible. The S2000’s OEM cylinder head features a distinctive intake-to-exhaust flow ratio that sets it apart from other Honda engines and popular motor designs. Despite recommendations to adopt K Series intake-to-exhaust cam sizing — a suggestion we encountered frequently — we recognized that the S2000’s exhaust flow capabilities far surpass those of the K series. We knew that adhering to such advice would likely result in performance gains confined to a limited RPM band.
Performance

As we have previously discussed, the S2000’s engine is exceptionally efficient, delivering an impressive 120 horsepower per liter. To achieve this level of performance, we committed to a camshaft solution that incorporates superior materials, precise manufacturing, and a design profile that minimizes wear. In contrast to typical aftermarket camshafts that offer modest gains of 5-10 horsepower for the S2000, our camshafts yield a significant improvement of 15-20 horsepower within the VTEC range on a tuned engine — and this distinction is crucial. Competitors may present inflated “gains” by measuring from a baseline dyno run, then installing their parts and tuning the engine with those new components installed (noting that an S2000 can gain 10-15 horsepower from tuning alone). Therefore, it’s vital to discern whether horsepower gains are due to the new parts or the tuning itself.

Here’s our straightforward approach to ensuring transparent results:

1. Tune the motor
2. Dyno
3. Install part
4. Dyno
5. Launch product because it’s awesome OR back to the drawing board and apply what we learned

Our testing protocol pits a tuned OEM cam motor against our tuned camshaft motor, so any observed gains are due to the camshafts alone, without any confounding from tuning improvements. Consistently, our camshafts have demonstrated remarkable increases of 15-20+ horsepower between 5000 and 9000 RPM when compared to a tuned AP1 model without any additional modifications. When installed on a tuned AP2 model with an intake, header, and exhaust, gains of 12-17 horsepower were realized in the 5000 to 8500 RPM range. We believe no other camshafts on the market have shown to exceed 10 horsepower gains over a tuned S2000.

When evaluating our products against competitors, it is critical to compare tuned versus tuned outcomes. Additionally, if a company artificially inflates their dyno numbers with questionable testing methods, it casts doubt on their overall integrity. URGE guarantees that any product we release has been validated through transparent and verifiable testing.


13 hp gains over a tuned motor, all gains attributed to the camshaft

Tune is required
We recognize the demand for camshafts that can be installed without additional tuning. Yet, it’s crucial to grasp the inherent constraints of the stock engine control unit (ECU) when it comes to adapting to increased airflow. Without tuning, the ECU can only marginally enhance air intake, with potential power gains restricted to about 10-15 horsepower—gains that are similarly accessible through basic modifications like upgraded intakes and exhaust systems. Furthermore, without recalibration, the ECU cannot optimize the engine’s performance to take full advantage of the increased airflow provided by our camshafts.

The Jerk Bumpstix camshafts are engineered to substantially augment airflow beyond what OEM parts can offer. To harness their complete performance benefits, meticulous tuning is essential to fine-tune the air-fuel ratios and ignition timing. Such precision tuning is critical to achieving the best engine performance by capitalizing on the significant airflow improvements of the camshafts. As much as the convenience of a plug-and-play camshaft is appealing, the importance of comprehensive tuning should not be underestimated for those aiming to maximize the performance enhancements afforded by the Jerk Bumpstix camshafts.

Jerk
An additional key goal of the Jerk Bumpstix camshafts is to minimize jerk, which is the rate of change of valve acceleration. High levels of jerk can lead to accelerated wear in the valve train and increase the likelihood of component failures, including valves, springs, or retainers. Our Type R camshafts, while offering roughly 10% more lift than their OEM counterparts, actually demonstrate lower valve jerk rates in comparison to the OEM cam profiles. The design process for all Jerk Bumpstix profiles involved the use of sophisticated camshaft modeling software to ensure we achieved minimal cam jerk, while also enhancing valve lift and duration. This focus on reducing jerk is intended to bolster the durability and reliability of valve train components, thereby contributing to superior engine performance and longevity.


URGE Bumpstix Intake VTEC Jerk Graph

 

OEM Intake VTEC Jerk Graph

URGE Jerk Bumpstix have lower and smoother valve jerk vs OEM meaning lower valvetrain wear, despite a >10% increase in lift and >10 degrees of duration.

Tool Steel
Jerk Bumpstix camshafts are crafted from a tool steel alloy, a material that is harder and more rigid than the cast steel typically used in camshaft production. This increased stiffness mitigates the axial twist experienced by the camshaft during high-RPM operation, which in turn reduces the deflection between the first and fourth cylinders—those closest and farthest from the camshaft drive, respectively. This reduction in deflection ensures more consistent torque across all cylinders, resulting in a more balanced and finely-tuned engine. The enhanced uniformity in performance can liberate additional horsepower.

CNC Machined
Jerk Bumpstix camshafts are manufactured using computer numerical controlled (CNC) machines, which meticulously replicate our computer-aided design (CAD) camshaft profiles with high precision. The dimensions of each camshaft are verified with a computer-controlled cam gauge, ensuring accuracy to the millionth of an inch. This rigorous process guarantees that each camshaft meets our exacting standards for precision and quality.
Ultra Valve Spring Kit

The URGE Designs Ultra-Valve Spring kit features a single spring design, custom-wound for use with OEM base locators and paired with Ti-17 alloy retainers compatible with OEM keepers. This design choice eliminates the need for custom bases and new keepers, offering a cost advantage over other high-end spring kits. The springs are made from a high-strength chromium-silicon-vanadium (CrSiV) alloy and utilize a thicker wire diameter, which reduces the number of coils necessary. This supports higher valve lifts of up to 0.650 inches (16.5mm) while concurrently reducing the spring’s weight, thereby facilitating operation beyond 10,000 RPM.

Moreover, the Ultra-Valve springs undergo heat treatment and shot peening, processes that diminish stress risers and potential points for crack initiation, thereby greatly enhancing their longevity and maintaining consistent spring rates. The kit’s springs are crafted from Ti-17 titanium alloy, which boasts a 30% increase in strength and a higher hardness on the HRC scale compared to the commonly used Ti6Al4V alloy, enhancing the overall durability of the springs.

Pricing
Type R Jerk Bumpstix: $1400
Stock bottom engines w/ bolt-ons, 270-300+ HP @ 8500 RPM peak power
~13.5mm IN & ~11.6mm EX valve lift (no need for EX rocker notching)
Strongly recommend URGE Ultra Valve Spring Kit

Stroker Jerk Bumpstix (In development): $1500
95mm+ Stroked Motors, 330-380+ HP @ 8000-8500 RPM peak power
~14.5mm IN & ~13mm EX valve lift (MUST notch exhaust rockers for clearance)
Strongly recommend URGE Ultra Valve Spring Kit

10K Jerk Bumpstix (In development): $1500
9500+ RPM motors, 330-380+ HP @ 9000-9500 RPM peak power
~14mm IN & ~12.5mm EX valve lift (MUST notch exhaust rockers for clearance)
Strongly recommend Titanium valves and URGE Ultra Valve Spring Kit

Ultra Valve Spring Kit: $600
Uses OEM bases and AP1 keepers for simpler install (don’t need to remove seals) and reduced cost
High strength CrSiV with large wire diameter providing 341 lbs/in spring rate
Reduced spring coils supporting higher valve lift of 0.650” or 16.5mm
Single spring design reducing spring weight ~10% vs OEM raising redline support
Spring surface and heat treatment maximizes lifetime with no pressure degradation
Strongest Titanium alloy (Ti-17) retainers @ ~30% higher strength vs typical Ti 6Al4V retainers

 

P.D: Venimos de aquí:

https://clubhondaspi...-7#entry2443570

 

S2000 Toda B2 Camshafts:

https://www.tdi-plc....a-b2-camshafts/

 

S2000 Toda B2 Camshafts
£1,056.00
SKU: 4_31-1 Categories: Engine Hardware Technology, S2000 Engine Components, Toda Racing

Description: S2000 Toda B2 Camshafts (pair)
All three cam profiles have been redesigned to increase power through out. Please note that most high lift camshafts will require the TODA Racing valve springs and require an aftermarket ECU. If in doubt, please call us for advice.

 

 

F20C/F22C High Power Profile Camshaft
Part No.    Angle (valve lift)    Type    Price
♦14111-F20-C2A    A2 : 235(8.0) / 295(13.0) / 240(8.5)    IN    
♦14121-F20-C2A    A2 : 230(8.0) / 290(12.0) / 235(8.5)    EX    
14111-F20-C2B    B2 : 250(11.0) / 302(13.2) / 250(11.0)    IN    £440
14121-F20-C2B    B2 : 250(11.0) / 292(12.7) / 250(11.0)    EX    £440
14111-F20-C2C    C2 : 250(11.0) / 307(13.2) / 250(11.0)    IN    
14121-F20-C2C    C2 : 250(11.0) / 297(12.7) / 250(11.0)    EX    
*On installing confirming that there is enough, valve to piston clearance, valve to valve clearance, cam lob to follower clearance during mid cam operation.
*Caution: finger follower (roller rocker-arm) may need modifying due to contact with the cam lob.
*The cam angles for Primary, Mid, Secondary are indicated.
*Standard valve spring cannot be used
*TODA Up Rated Valve Spring required.
♦ Can idle with STD ECU.
*This product is recommended to use in conjunction with the following Toda products.
Free Adjusting Cam Gears, Heavy Duty Timing Chain, Heavy Duty Oil Pump Chain, Heavy Duty Chain Tensioner

Editado por Storm, 04 February 2024 - 20:10:37.